The future of MythTV

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jameswilson1977
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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by jameswilson1977 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:27 pm

Hi
\been using mythtv since about 2009
Used both freeview usb and freesat pci tuners.
Have recently bought a hdhomerun so i can run myth be virtualised
Use myth fe (love it for the guide and programming) and myth lean for watching playback.
Id love the playback engine of lean in the android frontend as i said the guide layout in mythfe is wonderful

The only thing id add really the option to record paid for services. For me its sky sports.
As i use now tv on the firesticks i can only watch it live.
I watch F1 and its so annoying when coverqge starts at say 6pm but i dont get back till 7 etc
i accept the rest is streamed and no point recording but football etc id like to record like on a sky box

Other thank that i utterly love it and couldnt be without it.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by dlasher » Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:20 am

paulh wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:11 pm
@TMonster or anyone interested regarding MythMusic. I'm glad someone is using it :shock: I've asked this question on the mailing list before and the replies if I'm honest didn't really help me understand what users really want from MythMusic but I'm convinced we get a better class of user on the forum so I sure you will enlighten me with your relies :lol:

If you have a clean sheet tell me what you would want from MythMusic. How would the interface look and feel? The only limitation is it must work with a remote or keyboard and work within the confines of the 10 foot interface (it should be usable if you are sat 10 feet away from your TV with your remote).
I'm glad someone asked! *long* time myth user (2003) here, was dismayed when mythmusic changed, we haven't used it in years. :(

I think the best way to answer your question, is to describe how we want to use it. As adults who grew up in the tape/record/CD world, we tend to think about songs as part of an album, and albums as belonging to an artist. I've spent hours archiving my own CD's, organizing them carefully, so I can find what I want.

So when I want to hear a song, I think "Oh, Shape of my Heart, that's Sting, that was on the Ten Summoner's album, I'd love to hear that"
So I would like to open MythMusic, browse by folder to Sting, then to the album, then either play the album, or play the song.

That simple thought process is PAINFUL at present in MythMusic, and almost completely unworkable on a up/down/left/right remote only. Everything else, like playlists, like genre's, is massively deprioritized compared to the ability to HEAR quickly, what I know exists and where.

I hope that helps?
...
First recording: Wednesday July 28th, 2004

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by dlasher » Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:33 am

paulh wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:26 pm
We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate. We think one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.

So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it?

Would you like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?

Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
We started using MythTV because we were long time DirecTivo users, and the HD Tivo was $1300. Commercial flagging was a revelation and we've never looked back.

For me, MythTV has always been about 2 things:
* recording TV off the air, so I don't have to pay for cable/cable-boxes
* playing back media I've recorded or archived.

RE: #1 - Silicon Dust saved MythTV, at least in the US, imho. No more PCI interrupts, firmware, IR blasters, just plug and record. In spite of being replaced by HDHR3+Cablecards (which are going away too) my original HDHR's are still recording while going through at least 1 power supply a year. I'm embarrassed at how much is sitting in my /myth/tv folder, maybe when I retire I can watch it all. :)

RE: #2 - Plex, quite honestly has replaced this role for non-OTA content. Nice thin client that works on everything smart, and does a *fair* job of dealing with mixed sources. It does a craptastic job of tuners/scheduling/etc, otherwise it might have replaced Myth completely.

For me, if we ever get to a stage where I can no longer record off the air, MythTV will probably get retired. I will miss it terribly, it's been a critical part of the media experience in our family.

So to answer your question, in my humble opinion, the developers time is best spent figuring out ways to help MythTV consume additional sources so it stays the aggregation/recording platform we love. (Check out what xTeVe is doing for recording, or look at PlayOn for example as a model of how to legally record off streaming services)

Finally, my deepest thanks to ALL the devs.. 20 years is a LONG time for "free" software to stay relevant, and I still love MythTV as much today as I did when it started. \tip.hat\
...
First recording: Wednesday July 28th, 2004

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by josbouten » Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:58 pm

Finally, my deepest thanks to ALL the devs.. 20 years is a LONG time for "free" software to stay relevant, and I still love MythTV as much today as I did when it started. \tip.hat\
I'd like to second that as a user who started using Mythtv on a daily basis in 2005 (or maybe a bit earlier) and has not stopped doing so.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by Qmann » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:27 am

Right at 20 years here as well, and a huge thanks for all the work!

dlasher is spot on in every part! But, those services are profit generating machines and it ends up costing a lot more for the end user. Mythtv was always great because of the great people that contributed to making a great product for the greater good of mankind. You could do the work to set it up and get something going for minimal cost, and not recurring that would break the bank. Those days are gone I suppose.

As far as #2, Plex is a love hate for sure, and total craptastic on the DVR.... I don't know how I can live without watching MythTV recordings in 1.5x anyway, and they just laugh at the idea because they are too embarrassed to admit that MythTV ruled them on that one! I value my time, and once you get used to watching TV shows/news in 1.4 to 1.5x, AND with commercial skip, you'll never go back. As long as we can still record the OTA networks with MythTV, I'll be here. What I REALLY miss is being able to record off my dual DISH network receivers! Those were the days, though not HD at the time. :lol:

-Q
dlasher wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:33 am

For me, MythTV has always been about 2 things:
* recording TV off the air, so I don't have to pay for cable/cable-boxes
* playing back media I've recorded or archived.

RE: #1 - Silicon Dust saved MythTV, at least in the US, imho. No more PCI interrupts, firmware, IR blasters, just plug and record. In spite of being replaced by HDHR3+Cablecards (which are going away too) my original HDHR's are still recording while going through at least 1 power supply a year. I'm embarrassed at how much is sitting in my /myth/tv folder, maybe when I retire I can watch it all. :)

RE: #2 - Plex, quite honestly has replaced this role for non-OTA content. Nice thin client that works on everything smart, and does a *fair* job of dealing with mixed sources. It does a craptastic job of tuners/scheduling/etc, otherwise it might have replaced Myth completely.

For me, if we ever get to a stage where I can no longer record off the air, MythTV will probably get retired. I will miss it terribly, it's been a critical part of the media experience in our family.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by ski522 » Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:19 pm

Didn't read through the threads, started using MythTV when ReplayTV finally shutdown (maybe 2014?).

For me I use MythTV just for OTA, so ATSC support is a must, barring it needs it. I use Silicon Dust HDHomeRun to stream to MythTV and will just buy a newer model that supports ATSC once it becomes more mainstream with OTA. Kodi is my front end and I use MythWeb to schedule everything.

It would be nice to be able to record IPTV like PlutoTV and other similar services but I suspect that's not so easy to implement.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by twitham1 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:29 am

dlasher wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:20 am

So when I want to hear a song, I think "Oh, Shape of my Heart, that's Sting, that was on the Ten Summoner's album, I'd love to hear that"
So I would like to open MythMusic, browse by folder to Sting, then to the album, then either play the album, or play the song.

That simple thought process is PAINFUL at present in MythMusic, and almost completely unworkable on a up/down/left/right remote only. Everything else, like playlists, like genre's, is massively deprioritized compared to the ability to HEAR quickly, what I know exists and where.
I'm probably strange, but I love MythMusic! I queue a bunch of Albums and add more later, then just scroll up and down the active playlist, all by remote control. But Isn't what you want already:

Menu -> Playlist Editor -> Artist -> (name) -> Albums -> (name) -> Menu -> Replace or Add (or drill down to 1 song before replace/add)

Is there a way to make this shorter? Playlist Editor, Artist and Albums appear early in the options so they are 1 or 2 buttons. You could remove the later options we didn't use (genres, years) but that wouldn't save any button pushes. Long artist and album lists can be painful since you have to scroll all the way to Sting alphabetically. But how would we avoid that? Ah, scroll up from A - it already does in tree view but not gallery view. Channel up/down can also help here, scrolling the long list by pages. Would you rather scroll 26 letters and then enter those? Artists -> S -> Sting?

I believe the top level order is wrong though: All Tracks is first which is impossible to navigate as it is the longest possible list. The order should be easiest or most frequent first. Perhaps: Artists, Albums, Directory (to navigate your own physical order), Playlists, Compilations, Years, Genres, Ratings, and finally least used: All Tracks. Maybe even configurable order and option to suppress some, over in setup.

In addition to Replace and Add, maybe we need a Now/Insert/Interrupt option: insert this (album or song) in the active list after the current song and play it now, resuming the rest of the list after it finishes. If you just want to play this now and nothing else, that is already what Replace is.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by warpme » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:52 am

twitham1 wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:29 am
dlasher wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:20 am

So when I want to hear a song, I think "Oh, Shape of my Heart, that's Sting, that was on the Ten Summoner's album, I'd love to hear that"
So I would like to open MythMusic, browse by folder to Sting, then to the album, then either play the album, or play the song.

That simple thought process is PAINFUL at present in MythMusic, and almost completely unworkable on a up/down/left/right remote only. Everything else, like playlists, like genre's, is massively deprioritized compared to the ability to HEAR quickly, what I know exists and where.
......

In addition to Replace and Add, maybe we need a Now/Insert/Interrupt option: insert this (album or song) in the active list after the current song and play it now, resuming the rest of the list after it finishes. If you just want to play this now and nothing else, that is already what Replace is.
Ah - good to see we have another MythMusic lover here!

Just curious what you think about: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4468&start=60#p24521

This is a bit different approach based on my (https://github.com/warpme/minimyth2) users feedback: basically i see 2 groups of users (from music players UX perspective):
1. ppl playing favourite songs by playlists (I call them "organised music listeners)
2. ppl linking ad-hoc playing where next song is strongly driven by current emotions (you are listening song X and have immediate need to recall nice song Y) (I call them spontanic listeners)

With above i mind - i think enhancement like in viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4468&start=60#p24521 might be nice...
(iirc many years ago - before MythMusic rewrite to new UI - there was something like this in MythMusic)

btw: great work with WaveForm visualization!!!

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by twitham1 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:07 am

warpme wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:52 am

Just curious what you think about: ["browse and play"]

btw: great work with WaveForm visualization!!!
That sounds reasonable to me: "Browse and Play" will just play now and not affect the playlist at all. That's better than my insert idea which would "corrupt" the play list with this random song that shouldn't be there.

My question is: what does the spontaneous group want after the song or album they played? Silence until they play another? Return to the playlist?

Thank you, I had fun writing WaveForm recently. I'd also like to add a scrolling spectrogram to show frequencies over time.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by twitham1 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:40 am

PhilB wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:04 pm

Disks
I am used to the concept of mixing media to optimise the speed/ cost constraints. I grew up with optimising 500KB core store, 2MB drums, 30MB disks and magnetic tapes and it seems we have a new mix with SSD vs shingle disks. I think I am going to need a file migration mechanism whereby I record to SSD but move mature recordings to shingle. It can be managed via the API interface though I think that if the existing recording expiration code could be triggered by an API that would really help. “Please release X MB from storage partition Y”.
(sorry I'm seeing this over a year later...)

My disks are all similar performance, but I really needed to balance expiring content over the disks after being surprised by recent recordings disappearing before expected. Anyone using multiple recording disks might want to consider running this once a month to expire only your oldest recordings.

"mythtv-balance-expire trades recording files between multiple local disks in a mythtv server to better balance the files over recorded time. Why would you want to do this you ask?" https://github.com/twitham1/mythtv-balance-expire

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warpme
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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by warpme » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:30 pm

twitham1 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:07 am
warpme wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:52 am

Just curious what you think about: ["browse and play"]

btw: great work with WaveForm visualization!!!
That sounds reasonable to me: "Browse and Play" will just play now and not affect the playlist at all. That's better than my insert idea which would "corrupt" the play list with this random song that shouldn't be there.

My question is: what does the spontaneous group want after the song or album they played? Silence until they play another? Return to the playlist?
I think most intuitive will be silence.

btw: In "Browse and Play" mode it might be useful to collect songs user played and offer option to "save this session" as playlist.
This might be option user selects from menu and maybe also - at exiting MythMusic - MythMusic can display popup and ask "Do you want to save this session as playlist?"

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by allaboutmikey » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:21 pm

I have used MythTV since analogue was still the OTA thing! It has been great and (though sometimes an adventure to support given hardware) always a very capable solution. Since Digital TV the picture has been perfect of course.
I currently have 2 dual tuner DVB cards and one single, all setup to pull all the sub channels simultaneously from the DVB frequency they are tuned to. Nobody else I know can record 15 shows at the same time (and watch one of them or something else entirely once you get home)! Can any of those "easy" commercial boxes do that? MythTV FTW!

I also have used MythMusic exclusively for music playback in my livingroom for as long as I can remember. It did take me a while to figure out the playlist thing, but as I mostly listen to "everything" on random, I only need adjust it to add new songs. It doesn't bother me much.
I have two dedicated front ends (both using mythfrontend) in the lounge and the bedroom. I tried Kodi, but had trouble integrating it and didn't like the interface enough to bother. Mythfrontend seems so obvious and natural to me. Skipping during playback (i use smart 30s forward and 5s back) is so fast, it puts all online streamers to shame! I sometimes watch from a Linux PC (also mythfrontend) if I want something different to the wife and don't want to lie in bed.

The webkit dependency for mythmusic is stopping me from going to 0.32 on all of my systems. I may well put in the patch that was reverted for making it optional. I didn't even know those features existed for getting images. I've never used them, but WebKit is gone. If I have to pick, I'll go with mythmusic without those features rather than no mythmusic!

MythTV has been for ever, and still is, central to the entertainment in my house. Great work all those involved!

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by Lester-the-NightFly » Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:49 am

Another user, first KnoppMyth then LinHES, which I am still using.
I did purchase an HomeRun with the ATSC 3 on two of the 4 tuners, waiting for the station to happen in this market.

I haven't used the music portion of MythTV yet, but from my understanding how it works, I didn't want to create playlist.

What I'd like to see would be MythJuke or JukeMyth.

Make it into a Jukebox, where one can select songs or albums to play, and just keep adding more songs.
There would be a limit to the number to add. Maybe have the temporary list sitting as either as a file or in memory.
Not sure how many others would like this, but here's one vote.

Oh, and a thanks for the developers of MythTV and LinHES too.
I am hoping it will be around for another 20 years.

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Re: The future of MythTV

Post by Lester-the-NightFly » Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:29 am

I too am a long time user, since 2007. First KnoppMyth, then LinHES. First from Analog cable to now HD 'Linear TV'.

Have purchased a HomeRun tuner that has the ASTC 3.0, waiting for the Station to hit the market.
If this is becoming a wish list, along with ASTC 3.0 I would like to see a JukeBox for the music.
This is so we don't need to create a playlist, just make the mutilple selections, either single song or entire albums.

Anyway, I hope the product will be around for several more years, I wondering if the streaming service will merge into 3-4 major groups with cost being approx. $40/month. so I'm hoping OTA TV will survive.

Finally, thanks to the developers for all the time an effort they put into this product.

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